J.V.N.: Oblast kojom se bavim je kosmologija, dakle najveće strukture u Svemiru. Tu se postavljaju pitanja kao "Koliko je Svemir veliki?", "Od čega je sačinjen?". "Da li je svet nastao u jednom trenutku?", "Šta će se dalje sa njim dešavati?" Sve ove ideje čine današnju kosmologiju. Moji skorašnji radovi se bave nastankom galaksija i grupa galaksija. Moje kolege i ja se bavimo kompjuterskim simulacijama nastanka ovih formacija. Ono što činimo jeste da pomoću računara napravimo grupu slučajno raspoređenih tačaka gde se svaka tačka ponaša kao malo središte nastanka materije. Ona stvara svoju okolinu koja je, u stvari, nova galaksija nastala u svojevrsnom kosmičkom događaju. Onda se sistem širi u prostoru , jer se i Svemir širi, i ovi događaji se ponavljaju, tako da nove tačke stvaraju nove događaje. Zatim se zapaža da se ove tačkaste formacije počinju grupisati i to na način koji odgovara zapaženom grupisanju galaksija u Svemiru.

S.K.: Dakle, dobili ste vlaknastu raspodelu i galaktička jata. To je zanimljivo jer smo moj kolega i ja u papiru koji smo napisali i pokazali Vam, takođe obrađivali problem velikih struktura u Svemiru. Mi smo analizirali orijentaciju galaktičkih osa rotacije.

J.V.N.: I da li ste pronašli nešto zanimljivo?

S.K.: Da. U klasičnim scenarijima se očekuje da je distribucija galaktičkih osa istotropna. Međutim, mi smo pronašli vliku anizotropiju. Tako, sada pokušavamo da razvijemo metod radi dublje analize galaktičkih jata da bismo videli da li će naši rezultati da se poklope sa važećim scenarijima. Mislim da je to slično onome čime se i Vi bavite...?

J.V.N.: Tako je. U stvari, u našem modelu nema jednog Bing Benga. Materija nastaje u mini-bengovima. Ako imate masivni rotirajući objekat koji se ponaša kao rotirajuća crna rupa, mi smo pokazali da u blizini takvog objekta materija može nastajati i izbacivati se duž ose rotacije. Tako dobijate neku vrstu linearne strukture. Drago nam je da tvrdimo da je to upravo razlog za ono što vidimo posredstvom radio-teleskopa kao mlazeve materije. Na većoj skali vidite erupcije i vlaknaste strukture kako se razvijaju oko ove linearne distribucije.

S.K.: Sada bih želeo da Vas pitam o stanju u Indijskoj astronomiji.

J.V.N.: U Indiji mi od skora imamo Veliki Metarski Radio-teleskop. U razvijenim zemljama na metarskim dužinama postoji velika interferencija i zato je Indija odlučila da ovo napravi i to za one talasne dužine koje su slabo istraživane. Sistem ima 30 antena, svaka prečnika 45 metara, raspoređenih na dužini od nekoliko kilometara. Uz pomoć ove instalacije, nadamo se da ćemo moći posmatrati neutralni vodonik sa visokim crvenim pomakom.

S.K.: To je danas vrlo popularno.
J.V.N.: Jeste. Astrofizičari žele takođe da prave radio-mape visoke rezolucije. U Indiji postoji i jak teorijski rad. Formiranje kosmičkih struktura je jedna od glavnih oblasti. Doduše, ja se bavim nekonvencionalnim pristupom ali i konvencionalni nasta-nak struktura u Bing Bengu je zastupljen u istraživanjima Indij-skih fizičara. Takođe imamo i grupu koja analizira podatke sa detektora gravitacionih talasa, kao što je LIGO. Kada se detektuje nešto što liči na signal, mora se biti apsolutno siguran da je to ori-ginalno, pa obrada zahteva dosta matematičke analize. Neke od Indijskih grupa su u tome dobre i sarađuju sa kolegama u svetu.

S.K.: Koliko se dugo time bave?

J.V.N.: Pa, već otprilike 4-5 godina. Očekujemo da će detektori biti spremni za otprilike godinu dana i najmanje dva-tri će proraditi. Postoji optimizam da će biti dobrih rezultata u prvoj deceniji narednog veka.

S.K.: Možete li mi nešto reći o institutu gde radite?

J.V.N.: Ja radim u Interuniverzitetskom Centru za Astronomiju i Astrofiziku. To je nacionalni centar koji koordinira sve univerzitete u Indiji. U Centru imamo grupu stručnjaka koji se bave istraživanjima u raznim oblastima astronomije. Oni imaju svoje studente poslediplomskih i post-doktorskih studija. Druga važna funkcija našeg Centra je da su tu formirane instrumentalna laboratorija, kompjuterski centar, biblioteka i sl. To koriste stručnjaci iz čitave Indije. Takođe organizujemo razne celogodišnje programe obuka i radionica različitog nivoa. Postoje fakulteti za uvodno obrazovanje fizičara i matematičara koji nameravaju da se bave astronomijom. Na drugom kraju spektra naših aktivnosti, organizujemo vrhunske seminare u vrlo uskim oblastima za specijaliste koje pozivamo da izlože svoje radove. Dakle, tu je mnogo programa od kojih se neki odvijaju u kampusu ili na raznim univerzitetima a takođe imamo i goste iz inostranstva.

S.K.: To je velika prednost za vaše naučnike. Međutim, svi ti programi traže finansiranje kao i bazični istraživački rad. kakva je situacija sa finansiranjem nauke u Indiji?

J.V.N.: Pa, kao naučna zajednica, mi bismo želeli da imamo veću finansijsku podršku. To je uvek slučaj, uvek se traži još više... Mislim da je finansijska podrška velika u odnosu na ekonomsku situaciju u kojoj se nalazi Indija. Naše potrebe se pokrivaju sa raznih strana. Sada, na primer, planiramo naš sopstveni dvometarski teleskop i to je veliki poduhvat za koji se nadam da će početi u narednih godinu dana.

S.K.: Vidim da pokušavate da unapredite posmatračku astronomiju u Indiji. A šta je sa amaterskom astronomijom?

J.V.N.: Zaboravio sam da kažem da je jedna od naših prioritetnih aktivnosti usmerena prema javnosti. Imamo saradnju sa amaterskom zajednicom, ne samo u Puni gde smo locirani, već i sa drugim amaterskim klubovima širom Indije. Ponekad organizujemo kampove na kojima se prave teleskopi a gde učesnike snabdevamo potrebnim delovima. Ponekad sponzorišemo susrete amatera astronoma, nacionalne ili regionalne. Naši stručnjaci posećuju te skupove i drže predavanja ili ih obaveštavaju šta se dešava u profesionalnim istraživanjima. Takođe organizujemo predavanja za studente.

S.K.: I kako reaguje javnost?

J.V.N.: Do sada je reakcija bila vrlo dobra. Na takozvanom Nacionalnom Danu Nauke organizujemo neposredne susrete sa publikom -- tada zna da dođe i desetak hiljada ljudi. Ukoliko imamo nekog uglednog stranog gosta, organizujemo popularno predavanje u gradu.

S.K.: Vidim da obrazovanje ima veliku ulogu u Indiji. Kako se astronomija uži u školama?

J.V.N.: Na žalost, nema mnogo astronomije u školskim programima. Uči se nešto o planetama i Sunčevom sistemu ali više kao proširenje geografije, nego kao deo nauke. Sada se uvodi nova nastavna jedinica o Svemiru -- ali i to je površan opis astronomije. Astronomija bi trebalo da bude predstavljena kao nauka, kao deo fizike.

S.K.: To zvuči slično situaciji u Jugoslaviji. Hvala vam Dr Narlikar za vreme koje ste mi posvetili.

J.V.N.: My field of research is cosmology, which deals with the large-scale structure of the universe. It asks questions like "How big is the universe?", "What is it made of?", "Was it a world created in a single event?", "What is going to happen to it?". All these ideas are a part of cosmology today. One of my recent papers deals with the issue of how galaxies and clusters of galaxies form in the Universe. What I and some of my colleagues tried to show was to simulate on a computer how this structure formation, as we call it, came about. What you do is imagine that there are random points generated on a computer, and each point acts as a mini-creation center. It creates a neighbor, which is a new galaxy created by a cosmic event. You go on expanding this system in space, because the Universe is expanding, and repeat the exercise after a certain time, so that more points create more events. Than you look at these point distributions, and you find that they begin to cluster.

S.K.: So You get sheets and filaments and clusters of galaxies. It's very interesting, because the paper I showed You, that my friend and I did, is also on large-scale structure. We analyzed the orientation of galaxy rotation axes.

J.V.N.: Did You find something interesting?

S.K.: Yes, because in the classical scenarios it is expected that the distribution of galaxy orientation angles is isotropic. However, we found a large anisotropy. So we're trying to use an improved method to do a deeper analysis of the cluster and then see if our results fit any of the cluster formation scenarios. I think that's something You have been dealing with…

J.V.N.: Yes. In fact, in our picture, there is no single Big Bang. Matter is created in mini-bangs, which are mini-creation events. If you have a massive rotating object, which acts like a rotating black hole, then we show that in the neighborhood of such an object matter can be created and it can be ejected along the axis of rotation. So you get a kind of linear structure. We like to say that some of the jets you see in radio-galaxies are because of this. On a larger scale, you see ejection and a filamentary structure arising out of this linear distribution.

S.K.: What is the situation in Indian astronomy like at the moment?

J.V.N.: Well, in Indian astronomy we have recently one major faci-lity which has come on the line, which is the Giant Meter-Wave Radio Telescope. At meter wavelengths there is lot of interference in more developed countries, so India decided to go for it, but at a wavelength that is not observed much by astronomers. This system has 30 antennas, each of 45 m in diameter, distributed over several kilometers. With the help of this, we hope to look for neutral hydrogen at high redshifts.

S.K.: That's very popular now.
J.V.N.: Yes. So, that's what they want to look at. They also want to make radio maps in high resolution. There is also a strong theore-tical component in Indian astronomy. Structure formation is one of the main areas. I'm of course following an unconventional approach, but conventional Big Bang structure formation is also being studied by theoreticians in India. Then we have a group which is analyzing the data from gravitational wave detectors, like LIGO. When something that looks like a signal is received, one has to be absolu-tely sure it is genuine, so you need lot of mathematical treatment. Some of the Indian groups are good at it, and they are collaborating.

S.K.: How long have they been working?

J.V.N.: Well, people have been working on this data analysis for four or five years now. The detectors are expected to be ready in a year or so - at least two or three will be functioning. They are optimistic about getting something in the first decade of the coming century.

S.K.: Can You tell me something about the facility which You work in?

J.V.N.: I work at an institution called Inter-University Center for Astronomy and Astrophysics. It's a national coordinating center for all universities in India, so we have at the Center a group of acade-mics who do their own research in different branches of astronomy. They have their graduate students and their postdocs. Another major aspect of our center is that it has created facilities like the instrumentation laboratory, computer center, astronomical data center, library etc. It is used by academics from all over India. They come and do their research with the help of the facilities we have, as a part of our associateship program. We also organize year-round activity of schools and workshops at different levels. There are introductory schools for physics or math students who want to get into astronomy. At the other end of this spectrum, we organize high level workshops in very focused fields, so that only those who are working in that field come - we invite them to review the subject.

S.K.: That's a great advantage for your scientists… However, all these workshops and schools need funding. Research itself needs to be financially supported. What is the situation with funding in India?

J.V.N.: Well, as a community we would like to have more funding, but… This is always the case, you always ask for more… I think there is large funding, regarding the financial constrains India has. For example, now we have a plan for a 2 m telescope of our own, and that is being built. It is a major activity, and hopefully it will start working a year from now. So, there are funds for such facilities.

S.K.: I see that you are trying to improve observational astronomy in India. What about amateur astronomy?

J.V.N.: Yes, I forgot to mention that one of our major activities is what we call public outreach programs. We have interaction with the amateur community, not only in Pune, where we are located, but with other amateur clubs all over India. Sometimes we organize telescope making workshops, so people come and make their own telescopes out of the items provided by our Center. Sometimes we also sponsor amateur astronomy meetings, national or regional. Some of our people go and speak at those meeting or give them some details about the observations that had come up in the professional community. Then we also have interaction with school students - we organize lectures for them.

S.K.: And what is the response of the public like?

J.V.N.: The response has been very good. On what we call The National Science Day, which is on 20th of February, we keep an open house, so the public comes in and we are sort of mobbed… something like five to ten thousand people come. Even at that time, when ever we have some distinguished speaker from outside, we organize a public lecture in the town, which is well attended.

S.K.: I see that education plays a major role in India. To wrap this up, can You tell me how is astronomy taught in schools?

J.V.N.: Unfortunately, there is not much astronomy in the school curriculum. They teach about planets and the Solar system, but more as an extension of geography then as a part of science. Now they're starting a new chapter called "What about the Universe?" or something like that - a superficial description of astronomy. They should be shown that it's a part of science, a part of physics.

S.K.: Oh, it sounds very similar to the situation in Yugoslavia… Thank You very much for Your time, Dr. Narlikar.